Betfair exchange : New Betfair Plan

News, chat and debate about the Betfair betting exchange.
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Derek27
Posts: 5557
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:44 am
Location: UK

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:15 am

ShaunWhite wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:06 am
Any Exchange discount rate you would normally receive due to your Betfair Points will not apply while you are opted in to a package. Betfair points will continue to accrue as normal. Your commission rate on Australasian markets will continue to be calculated using MBR (Market Base Rate) and Betfair Points.
I hadn't noticed that but I would have been amazed if they allowed you to get away with 2% at the NSW markets.

LinusP
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:26 am

As a PC payer you are not offered or allowed to be part of offers like this (incl cash race) however you can ask to have you commission reduced to 2% if you want (or fixed higher). This is because it should make no difference to the amount you pay when PC is applied.

The issue as a newbie trader is that if you pay 2% resulting in your lifetime Commisiom dropping below 10 or 5% resulting in 50 or 60% rate which is a killer and very tricky to get off.

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ShaunWhite
Posts: 4785
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:42 am

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:33 am

BF points accrue as normal and apply to Autralasian markets, but you can't see them on the site anymore now the Rewards (Beta) has replaced Points on the Promo & Rewards dropdown menu....

Hi, where can I see my BF Points total, they're still relevent to the Aus markets but not visible on the site since the new Reward scheme came in
Hey Shaun, what do you mean they're still relevent to Aus markets?
Your info says :Your commission rate on Australasian markets will continue to be calculated using MBR (Market Base Rate) and Betfair Points. Betfair points will continue to accrue as normal.
they're still showing in your points statement anyway Shaun so it should still be counted as if you were on another rewards scheme
where do i see my points statement...it seems to have gone
it's still showing on the backend here
under the Promotions and Rewards dropdown?
perhaps under my account?
Nope, Where it used to say Points it now says BF Rewards (Beta)
well any time you want to check your current balance you can contact us?not ideal I know
Seems a bit strange. It's almost like someone didn't think about it. Can you make a request to have it displayed online
I can certainly pass on that feedback
thanks

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Naffman
Posts: 3080
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:46 am

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:36 am

LinusP wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:26 am
As a PC payer you are not offered or allowed to be part of offers like this (incl cash race) however you can ask to have you commission reduced to 2% if you want (or fixed higher). This is because it should make no difference to the amount you pay when PC is applied.

The issue as a newbie trader is that if you pay 2% resulting in your lifetime Commisiom dropping below 10 or 5% resulting in 50 or 60% rate which is a killer and very tricky to get off.
Pretty sure we have been offered it

LinusP
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:41 am

Naffman wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:36 am
LinusP wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:26 am
As a PC payer you are not offered or allowed to be part of offers like this (incl cash race) however you can ask to have you commission reduced to 2% if you want (or fixed higher). This is because it should make no difference to the amount you pay when PC is applied.

The issue as a newbie trader is that if you pay 2% resulting in your lifetime Commisiom dropping below 10 or 5% resulting in 50 or 60% rate which is a killer and very tricky to get off.
Pretty sure we have been offered it
Stand corrected then, made an assumption, I am already on 2% / MSA due to paying silly amounts in commission every week.

rik
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:16 am

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am

LinusP wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:26 am
As a PC payer you are not offered or allowed to be part of offers like this (incl cash race) however you can ask to have you commission reduced to 2% if you want (or fixed higher). This is because it should make no difference to the amount you pay when PC is applied.

The issue as a newbie trader is that if you pay 2% resulting in your lifetime Commisiom dropping below 10 or 5% resulting in 50 or 60% rate which is a killer and very tricky to get off.
thats just wrong though, asking for a higher fixed rate is stupid.
premium charge is based on generated commission which differs from paid commission. if your on a higher base rate you will pay more compared to the comission you generate if your below 3% you will generate more than pay. thats because generated commission is based on 3% market average rate. derek uploaded a good spreadsheet for that earlier.

if your worried about your lifetime commission bet opposite side on 0-0 and over under or even cross match yourself if you think its worth the risk betfair not minding.
safer way have a market making automation with lots of small orders, good chance youll make a profit before commission and variance wont be bad

LinusP
Posts: 1617
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:45 pm

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:14 am

rik wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:14 am
LinusP wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 6:26 am
As a PC payer you are not offered or allowed to be part of offers like this (incl cash race) however you can ask to have you commission reduced to 2% if you want (or fixed higher). This is because it should make no difference to the amount you pay when PC is applied.

The issue as a newbie trader is that if you pay 2% resulting in your lifetime Commisiom dropping below 10 or 5% resulting in 50 or 60% rate which is a killer and very tricky to get off.
thats just wrong though, asking for a higher fixed rate is stupid.
premium charge is based on generated commission which differs from paid commission. if your on a higher base rate you will pay more compared to the comission you generate if your below 3% you will generate more than pay. thats because generated commission is based on 3% market average rate. derek uploaded a good spreadsheet for that earlier.

if your worried about your lifetime commission bet opposite side on 0-0 and over under or even cross match yourself if you think its worth the risk betfair not minding.
safer way have a market making automation with lots of small orders, good chance youll make a profit before commission and variance wont be bad
For some it’s about the physicology of having x taken every Wednesday and to be honest I think I would prefer to have it taken on a per market basis if it meant I didn’t pay more long term.

sa7med
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 am

Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:19 am

Derek27 wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:56 am
sa7med wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:55 am
Just got the email. Correct me if im wrong but wouldn't those paying PC be better off with the 8% category? Considering you'd be topped up to 20% anyway, only at least you'd be getting some, although paltry, rewards?
Here's a little spreadsheet - you'll find you're better off on 2% because you only acutally get credited for half the commission you pay. Annoyingly, the guy who lost the money gets credited for the other half. ;)

Bear in mind that if this plan comes to an end and you switch back to the standard 5%, your points and commission discount will have slipped away.
Sorry, apparently I STILL dont understand how PC charges work. Could you explain this formula?

Gross*0.2-(C6+Loss*0.03)/2 - whats the 0.03? Wouldn't that change according to package? IE 0.04 for 8% and 0.01 for 2%? I'm confused.

rik
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:16 am

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:19 am

play around with dereks spreadsheet will help you understand it. 0.03 refers to average comission rate on betfair.

for every £100 you lose on betfair you will generate £1,50 no matter what your own comission rate is as thats average betfair rate.
every £100 you win you will generate half your own commission rate, so if your on 5% £2,5 and 2% 1£

say you have total win markets of £10000 in a given week and total loss markets of £8000 if you chose the 5% plan you will pay £500 (25%) of your profits in commission but only generate £370 (£250 + 8000* 0.015) which is just 18.5% so youd have to pay 6.5%/£130 extra premium charge.
Difference if choose 8% option more extreme and the more balanced your win/loss ratio is the more difference it will make.

sa7med
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu May 18, 2017 8:01 am

Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:34 am

rik wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:19 am
play around with dereks spreadsheet will help you understand it. 0.03 refers to average comission rate on betfair.

for every £100 you lose on betfair you will generate £1,50 no matter what your own comission rate is as thats average betfair rate.
every £100 you win you will generate half your own commission rate, so if your on 5% £2,5 and 2% 1£

say you have total win markets of £10000 in a given week and total loss markets of £8000 if you chose the 5% plan you will pay £500 (25%) of your profits in commission but only generate £370 (£250 + 8000* 0.015) which is just 18.5% so youd have to pay 6.5%/£130 extra premium charge.
Difference if choose 8% option more extreme and the more balanced your win/loss ratio is the more difference it will make.
I see, thanks for clarifying. 2% it is then. Thanks for the excel sheet Derek.

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